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Forum » [FHSW Europ] FHSW 0.61 Server: » Complaint Area » Gold Beach flag defense and gameplay (We need to clear things up about defending and attacking...)
Gold Beach flag defense and gameplay
starking018Date: Sunday, 2020-05-10, 11:55 AM | Message # 1
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Recently on Gold Beach Marduk kicked me once, and at the time there was no easy way for me to even understand correctly what he was thinking. I think the same thing was done to others too, so let's resolve this respectfully once and for all. I opened the chat log and here's how I now interpret Marduk's position (please correct or expand):

Marduk considers it forbidden for allied players to stay to defend flag 4 (radar); or perhaps also forbidden for allies anywhere to kill while not advancing towards 5 (here let's only discuss cases which do not fall strictly under spawn camping, which is a separate topic).

Yet defending a flag like this is part of normal gameplay, a good strategy to win by ticket bleed, and even necessary/desirable if the team is to successfully push flags in push mode. It stands to reason that it must also be considered allowed gameplay. It's the way this map is, and it's the way it's being played by most FHSW players in the world, without issue. Moreover, I defend a player's right to defend any such places even if such action is or seems odd, unnecessary, unhelpful, or not fun for anyone, as long as it's not strictly bad for the player's own team (e.g. blocking a limited resource while losing).

Opinions are welcome.

TL;DR: Stop kicking for what amounts to normal, good or even necessary gameplay.


Air Troll a.k.a. starking018
 
basilonemoh7Date: Sunday, 2020-05-10, 12:16 PM | Message # 2
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Defending a flag is part of game play. Not doing so allows the enemy to recap.

Cheers


John Basilone
Medal of Honor Winner
1916-1945
KIA Iwo Jima
 
mardukDate: Sunday, 2020-05-10, 5:47 PM | Message # 3
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Ok, so from now on I will always take a tank, not attack the next flag and just stay behind the fog or bushes and kill everybody that tries to recap. Even though when it is a pushmap like Gold beach I will do so. Just standing there and playing for my own score trying to get the best possible KDR, not trying to approach the next flag because I could get killed and my KDR could become a little less good. For this, I take the tank with the strongest armour so it basically is nearly impossble to get killed myself. The other team can't recap, but I also give a fuck about helping my own team to cap the next flag cause I would expose myself. Let's all do this and we will have awesome static rounds where nothing happens.

Apart from that, Air troll, you were NOT "defending" flag 4 in that style but flag 3 and Allied team was still bleeding.
And after you had killed me the third or fourth time from the same position when I was trying to recap flag 3 I realized you were doing what I descriped above. And that's why I kicked you.


This is a gaming community. People come here to relax. If you start an argument you will get kicked.

Quid pro quo.
 
Born-1942Date: Sunday, 2020-05-10, 11:33 PM | Message # 4
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I agree with marduk, in push modes. it is not good to be campering in the enemy's flag, as this would hinder the good battle that could happen, because some players would be campering in unnecessary flags, it would delay the opposing team. Nothing strategic or tactical, just battles fought on a flag with no purpose of victory for the injured team.

Nicknames BornDarkness and Soldado da Wehrmacht
 
FranktheEraserDate: Monday, 2020-05-11, 4:54 AM | Message # 5
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Hi guys,

Just to add my two cents, sorry marduk, hass mir nicht. l can't do anything about that, but giving my point of view. I know it is very irritating trying to recap a flag and that someone is waiting for you, but it is like real life.
Let me put it in another way, everyone who "camps" at the recap bases is helping his own team not to lose a flag and then start over and over again. That really fucks me up, specially as l am normally one of the vanguard who sneaks in far bases and when l am capping it, we lost the previous flag. And l lose my temper in forgotten jungle... when playing as yanks. It is not l want to improve my KDR, but game becomes very boring when my team is capping a flag and then lises the previous one and then the whole team has to go back... and loses even the previous flag as there may be precappers (gold beach e.g.) and l feel useless and always the same due to shitty teamplay and cunning foes. Then l decide to guard my flag, like a lot of people do, to win the battle all at once.
In the case guarding a flag should be punished, those who do not teamplay should be as well.
Sorry for so long message, l just dont wanna face marduk, mesopotamian god, and get killed and banned for this little problem.
When they do it to me, l just try to be smarter than the foe and kill him before he catches me.

See you at goulban


In Soviet Russia, FHSW chooses you. Tkers must be purged. -FraNKVD-
 
mardukDate: Monday, 2020-05-11, 7:44 AM | Message # 6
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Apart from the topic, I actually wonder why players open an own thread for a single kick in a single incident.
Do you really think it's admins job or they have that much time to argue with all that bullshit all the time?
We are not getting paid or anything, it is just a fukn hobby. Make one step back with your big egos...!
When somebody got banned it is fair enough to open a thread, or after multiple kicks, ok!
But after a single kick, really!?
Very sad.


This is a gaming community. People come here to relax. If you start an argument you will get kicked.

Quid pro quo.
 
starking018Date: Monday, 2020-05-11, 10:05 PM | Message # 7
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Quote marduk ()
Ok, so from now on I will always take a tank, not attack the next flag and just stay behind the fog or bushes and kill everybody that tries to recap. Even though when it is a pushmap like Gold beach I will do so.

Okay, I wouldn't want you kicked for that. I think you'd be bored, (and then suddenly killed anyway) and that's why I never actually did that. If I stop, it's only because I need to reload, repair, rearm or address a concrete tactical necessity (e.g. spotted enemy about to recap) so that I have a chance to do things after that.
Quote marduk ()
Apart from that, Air troll, you were NOT "defending" flag 4 in that style but flag 3 and Allied team was still bleeding.
And after you had killed me the third or fourth time from the same position when I was trying to recap flag 3 I realized you were doing what I descriped above. And that's why I kicked you.

When Allies cap 3 bleeding stops. Also, you got events wrong (if that matters at all):


Regardless, from what you're saying here it appears you don't want to allow a player from a team which has to catch up (bleeding, or with fewer tickets) to be defending (or not attacking in general?)... in what circumstances? When the player is controlling a vehicle which is good for flag assault? If that's the principle, then it'd have to allow for the circumstances when the vehicle is not actually good - it needs repairs, ammo, etc. or support from teammates. It'd have to also allow time for other difficulties - slow speed, difficult terrain, etc. You may need to know well what's going on in the situation, or give more time, in order to determine that there's a violation of that. Apart from that, I wouldn't oppose such a rule.
I'm just trying to formulate what the principle is, so we can understand each other.

Added (2020-05-11, 10:41 PM)
---------------------------------------------

Quote Born-1942 ()
campering in the enemy's flag
You got it wrong, this is about camping or defending a friendly flag.
Quote marduk ()
I actually wonder why players open an own thread for a single kick in a single incident.
I tried to make it clear from the start that this is a principle issue, and rule determination issue. If the kick was an isolated incident, I'd totally forgive and move on. But I think I remember two prior cases in the last year alone when someone else got kicked on Gold Beach and complained, and I never understood at the time what those situations were either, but I guessed they were probably related. And from this conversation it transpires that there are indeed things to understand and agree on, otherwise this situation is bound to repeat again and again, and too often...
Quote marduk ()
Do you really think it's admins job or they have that much time to argue with all that bullshit all the time?
No, and I think that clearing this up can help you too by doing less (seriously, see how you lose precious time to kick, and you potentially lose the flag attack which you wanted) along with helping everyone else.


Air Troll a.k.a. starking018
 
mardukDate: Wednesday, 2020-05-13, 6:50 AM | Message # 8
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biggrin  biggrin  biggrin
Sorry, I can't stop laughing!
You making so much effort for this hahahahaha
You made me laugh, god bless you!
Have a nice day smile


This is a gaming community. People come here to relax. If you start an argument you will get kicked.

Quid pro quo.
 
starking018Date: Wednesday, 2020-05-13, 5:59 PM | Message # 9
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That's fine, if we get fewer instances of damaging admin actions and maybe better gameplay in the end up You have a nice day too smile

Air Troll a.k.a. starking018
 
Forum » [FHSW Europ] FHSW 0.61 Server: » Complaint Area » Gold Beach flag defense and gameplay (We need to clear things up about defending and attacking...)
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