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Mappack 3 (m)
mardukDate: Monday, 2020-03-30, 9:00 AM | Message # 201
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Does somebody have old versions of Kakazu Ridge, Korsun Pocket and Kushira?

Those maps used to work fine in older FHSW versions but fucked up with the latest relaease. It would be quite easy to bring them back just including old versions of them in the mappack.


This is a gaming community. People come here to relax. If you start an argument you will get kicked.

Quid pro quo.
 
FranktheEraserDate: Tuesday, 2020-03-31, 10:34 AM | Message # 202
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Are you looking for v. 0.6 or a previous one?

In Soviet Russia, FHSW chooses you. Tkers must be purged. -FraNKVD-
 
mardukDate: Tuesday, 2020-03-31, 11:22 AM | Message # 203
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Yes, I think those maps all used to work fine in Version 0.6

This is a gaming community. People come here to relax. If you start an argument you will get kicked.

Quid pro quo.
 
twistedkebabfaceDate: Tuesday, 2020-03-31, 12:07 PM | Message # 204
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Marduk: Sent you a .zip in PM, check it

Hello, it's [FHSW] KEBab_RETurns. And i'm making good kebabs from my enemies.
 
bubuDate: Tuesday, 2020-03-31, 6:28 PM | Message # 205
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Thx Kebab!
 
starking018Date: Wednesday, 2020-04-01, 9:10 PM | Message # 206
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From FHSW EUROPE EVENTS - NEW THREAD (m):
Quote bubu ()
Repacking with the new Peleliu now.

Troll posted the link with new Peleliu 2 days after 1+2+3 was released, i.e. 2019-10-14. Sorry for not updating it.


Sorry, but that one is now outdated too wacko biggrin

It was updated for the December 2019 CM event, and then again after feedback from that event. The newest version available now can be found in the Kabu.server December 2019 mappack (their latest): https://drive.google.com/file/d/14kLlLkLSxy3jfJpaF_d-i5SnCsvs0SXg/view. Battle_of_Peleliu.rfa there is dated December 15 2019.

If we wait a few more days (until Saturday) we may have an even newer version, because it's time for the next CM event (held 3 times a year). Then several days after that they'd probably release a new Kabu.server mappack version.
Quote bubu ()
Quote waldhurzak ()
but u of course Dont care

Troll posted the link with new Peleliu 2 days after 1+2+3 was released, i.e. 2019-10-14. Sorry for not updating it.

I will ignore the "but u of course Dont care" part cos I don't have time for annoying bull shit.

It's true that I didn't post when that one was released but only after I was surprised by you releasing mappack 3 version 2. Frankly, I'm failing to keep up with the many things that need to be said or done, due to a combination of other occupations/priorities and procrastination/laziness (in other words, I'm guilty of not caring enough myself). I have about half a dozen other relatively important things to post about on this forum. Sorry about that :/ And sorry that my posts end up long biggrin

After what happened with mappack 3 version 2 I think I did tell you in game chat about the latest version from December (although I didn't post here about it)...

Anyway, I'm going to propose something practical. The Japanese community seems to be relatively good overall at organizing map testing, CM events, collecting feedback, releasing mappacks and spreading the word about all of that (thanks to people like 1121, and not to mention all the other map authors and contributors). So I think it's a good idea to adopt their map pack on our server too, in addition to our mappacks. In the case of Battle_of_Peleliu we'd replace our old version of it with the one in their mappack, which is the latest version. In this way we'd be fully compatible (no conflicting maps from the two servers' mappacks).

Their mappack releases take the form of one archive file containing all custom maps which are currently added to their server's map list, and this archive is updated once every few months, and the release carries the date in its name, like "kabuServerMaps201912.zip". So, it's like only one big mappack with newer and newer versions.

We could do this mappack adoption once and then if it works alright we could continue doing that with their future mappack versions. We don't need to have all their maps in our server's map list. But we could also rapidly adopt several of their tried and tested maps if we want to (there are several maps there which I think would be good for us).

Quote marduk ()
Does somebody have old versions of Kakazu Ridge, Korsun Pocket and Kushira?

Those maps used to work fine in older FHSW versions but fucked up with the latest relaease. It would be quite easy to bring them back just including old versions of them in the mappack.


I checked and only Kushira has been replaced in version 0.61. Kakazu Ridge and Korsun Pocket are actually the same files as in 0.6. I can find the ones from 0.55 and then we could test them to see if they work in 0.61 (it's actually not guaranteed) but there's another option available to us. Let's check the list of maps in kabuServerMaps201912.zip, ordered from the most recently modified one backwards:

    Surigao_Strait-1944.rfa
    Battle_of_Peleliu.rfa we have an old version
    203_Hill-1904.rfa
    Battle_of_Abyssinia.rfa
    operation_unthinkable.rfa we have it
    rescue_operation_in_carentan.rfa we have a different Carentan
    steel_stream.rfa
    polish_resistance.rfa we have it
    kushira_day2.rfa this one works
    Kakazu_Ridge-1945_CM201811.rfa I don't remember playing this, but I suppose it works too
    desert_hill2.rfa we have it
    operation_da.rfa we have it
    cruik.rfa
    battle_of_foy_classic2.rfa we have it
    counterattack-1950.rfa
    meigo_sakusen-1945.rfa
    Operation_Kikusui_day2_mod.rfa we have it


So I think that we'll be able to get two of these 3 maps back this way. Now about Korsun Pocket: I think that Kabu.server runs this map. I don't know if they have any SSM for it, but I can check or ask. What's the issue that we experience with it on our server? Mass disconnects? Server crash?

I'm still unsure which version of Peleliu we have right now, and what to recommend about the event this Sunday (adopt kabuServerMaps201912.zip now for the latest Peleliu or wait a week or two for their next version of the mappack, which may or may not include an even newer version of Peleliu).


Air Troll a.k.a. starking018
 
mardukDate: Thursday, 2020-04-02, 7:13 AM | Message # 207
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Kakazu Ridge and Korsun Pocket caused mass disconnections on our server several times. So yea, maybe include the later versions from 0.55.

Kushira does not have the anti pre-cap fix that got introduced to many other pushmaps so it gets fucked easily.

I removed Peleliu from Sunday maplist and exchanged it with Operation Da. There is too many versions around and we do not have enough time to decide for one and make everybody download it on time. I am sick of new versions of Peleliu anyway - we can not update our mappack every few weeks or months only because of one map. It already takes months until most of the players have downloaded a new mappack.


This is a gaming community. People come here to relax. If you start an argument you will get kicked.

Quid pro quo.
 
starking018Date: Wednesday, 2020-04-22, 1:02 AM | Message # 208
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Quote marduk ()
There is too many versions around and we do not have enough time to decide for one and make everybody download it on time. I am sick of new versions of Peleliu anyway - we can not update our mappack every few weeks or months only because of one map. It already takes months until most of the players have downloaded a new mappack.

I agree.

About the April 12 failure to play Peleliu, which Bubu said he didn't understand:
I only discovered that Bubu had decided to release yet another version of the mappack because I found out that the Google Drive link for the mappack reported April 6 as the date the file was last modified (there was an earlier modification in late March). Then I asked RADIOSMERSH about it, and he explained to me that in March Bubu had asked him privately on WhatsApp to release a mappack with the older Peleliu from this thread (Bubu mentioned the release in the Events thread on March 24) and then in April, again only talking privately, Bubu asked RADIOSMERSH to release yet another mappack version with the latest, incompatible version of Peleliu and adding a few other maps taken from kabuServerMaps201912.zip. This fact that there was a second release in April *distinct from and incompatible with the release in March* was not made public anywhere, as far as I can see. I only suspected it after the event on the 12th.

So, here's your explanation about what happened (and this is especially for Bubu. I would have expected and hoped that this was not necessary, but apparently it is):
People saw the previous announcements about a "new version" of the mappack from March and they prepared (especially seeing the event which was planned for April 5) by downloading that version. Then they rationally ignored any subsequent announcements or calls to install a "new version" after April 6, since they had already installed what they thought was *the* "new version" of the mappack so recently. No one saw any public announcement or version number or version date to make it known that there has been a "new new version", because there were no discernibly new announcements after March, and no new names/numbers for either of the two recent versions (be they "Mappack 3 version 3" and "Mappack 3 version 4" to increment from "Mappack 3 version 2", or any other unique names). So they had no reason to suspect anything. They tried to load the map and it crashed, because the two versions are incompatible.
And this would explain a large portion of the failures to load the map (apart from the ones where players just didn't have the mappack anyway and never thought that they had the right mappack).

@Bubu, I don't enjoy spending my time explaining all of this, but from this and from previous experience you should be able to see how making such public releases carelessly can be worse than not making a release until it's done right. So, here are some basic common sense principles for releasing things like mappacks (and not only):
  • Things to be released need to be discussed and agreed upon with the people who are going to be affected, in this case our interested players, so there needs to be a *public* discussion. In this way the best available ideas and information (e.g. latest map versions) can be presented and issues raised until we can agree upon the best practical release, or at least a good enough release. Concrete proposals are made (specific sets of map files, a version name) and after a certain period of time (let's say a week) in which there's some agreement with the proposal and no more issues that are too great to live with, a release can be made.
  • Every release needs a unique and descriptive enough release name and version name/version number, e.g. "FHSW 0.61" or "kabuServerMaps201912". The new version name/number needs to be incremented or updated in a way that makes it clear to the user that it is a different and newer release than any of the previous ones. This way they can know when they need to have it installed.
  • Every release needs to be communicated well to all our current and future players. There need to be announcements by all major forms of communication: server (welcome screen and/or messages, perhaps in the server name too), website homepage, forums (this topic, installation tutorial, perhaps a new topic in Announcements), Discord (@everyone mention, installation tutorial), moddb (eYe's installation tutorial), perhaps the Wiki (installation tutorial). The announcements need to include at least the version name/number and preferably also the date of the release and an explicit reminder that everyone needs to install it in order to be able to play all the maps on our server.
  • It is good to give people plenty of time to download each new mappack before we start playing the new or changed maps (breaking compatibility) for the first time. Therefore, a good idea is to disable the new and changed maps in the server's list and don't set them until, let's say, 1 week has passed since a given public release.

    When basic principles such as these (or similar) are broken, an epic failure is the expected and normal consequence and not a surprise or a mystery.

    Mind you, my proposal was for adopting Kabu.server's mappack as a whole - meaning announcing that in addition to our mappacks we would also require installing kabuServerMaps201912.zip on top (and overwriting maps) thus making it clear to our players that there is a new file to download and install. Of course things can be done in different ways too and made to work well. By the way, I never insisted on adding/updating Peleliu in our mappack.

    I'm not writing all of this to be condescending or disrespectful in any way. Rather I'm writing it to help you understand and to prevent recurring errors in the future.

    The TL;DR for everyone else is: Please don't release stuff unless and until we try to do it right together with all interested parties (And this is not to discourage anyone. Having new and better maps is good!)



    Anyway, following common sense principles, let's discuss and agree upon what our mappack should be. Let's start by documenting here exactly what the recent two opaque releases have actually been (map lists). Then we'll discuss and propose how to fix things, like perhaps suggesting a name for the latest mappack we have now and whether to re-release it. I'll update my previous proposal when the Kabu.server mappack is updated very soon.

    Air Troll a.k.a. starking018
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    bubuDate: Wednesday, 2020-04-22, 12:13 PM | Message # 209
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    Makes sense, thanks Troll.  Well, least I can say is an excuse to everyone. I must have got confused which of the 5 versions of the map is latest.
    Next time I am not going to release a map until I have a final version of a map and there are further versions of it going to be released, also awaiting feedback as you said smile

    Quote starking018 ()
    Every release needs a unique and descriptive enough release name and version name/version number, e.g. "FHSW 0.61" or "kabuServerMaps201912". The new version name/number needs to be incremented or updated in a way that makes it clear to the user that it is a different and newer release than any of the previous ones. This way they can know when they need to have it installed.
    Will do!

    Quote starking018 ()
    Every release needs to be communicated well to all our current and future players. There need to be announcements by all major forms of communication: server (welcome screen and/or messages, perhaps in the server name too), website homepage, forums (this topic, installation tutorial, perhaps a new topic in Announcements), Discord (@everyone mention, installation tutorial), moddb (eYe's installation tutorial), perhaps the Wiki (installation tutorial). The announcements need to include at least the version name/number and preferably also the date of the release and an explicit reminder that everyone needs to install it in order to be able to play all the maps on our server.
    Agreed, apart from ModDB: I contacted Eye and he refused to add any mappacks there because he wants to keep official files there only.

    Quote starking018 ()
    It is good to give people plenty of time to download each new mappack before we start playing the new or changed maps (breaking compatibility) for the first time. Therefore, a good idea is to disable the new and changed maps in the server's list and don't set them until, let's say, 1 week has passed since a given public release.
    Agreed, 1 week is minimum. However, as we all know, it took people download the mappack approx. 2 months until I did set Alpine line map and people came back to reach approx. 40 of us. I/we can't force people to download things but definitely, after 1-2 weeks, I believe most people should have it already.

    Quote starking018 ()
    When basic principles such as these (or similar) are broken, an epic failure is the expected and normal consequence and not a surprise or a mystery.
    Yep. More so if there are 4-5 versions of a map happy

    Quote starking018 ()
    my proposal was for adopting Kabu.server's mappack as a whole
    Unfortunately, I do refuse to do this due to many maps being unfinished/very unhistoric to the point of retardation/prone to bugs, crashes, problems. I rather prefer selecting the maps and putting them into our mappack as long as Japanese community agrees with such behaviour.

    Quote starking018 ()
    I never insisted on adding/updating Peleliu in our mappack.
    I know you didn't, but some players did and I liked the idea of having updated Peleliu too.

    Quote starking018 ()
    Then we'll discuss and propose how to fix things, like perhaps suggesting a name for the latest mappack we have now and whether to re-release it
    Last time I asked Marduk, he said no, if I remember well? Maybe want to reconsider this Mar? At least change it to Mappack 3.0 (dropping "1+2+" part) so we can increment it in form of Mappack3.1, 3.2, 3.3,... etc.?

    Quote starking018 ()
    I'll update my previous proposal when the Kabu.server mappack is updated very soon.
    Thanks Trolli! I will wait for that and publish spreadsheet asap after your update.
     
    starking018Date: Wednesday, 2020-04-22, 8:40 PM | Message # 210
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    Quote bubu ()
    Unfortunately, I do refuse to do this due to many maps being unfinished/very unhistoric to the point of retardation/prone to bugs, crashes, problems. I rather prefer selecting the maps and putting them into our mappack as long as Japanese community agrees with such behaviour.

    In my proposal for adopting Kabu.server's current (December 2019) mappack I suggested we don't enable all the maps which are in it. We can indeed reject maps for being unhistoric, but note that the maps in the Kabu.server mappack are generally better tested compared to other custom maps. Anyway, by selecting maps and doing releases properly in the future this proposal won't be needed.

    Quote bubu ()
    At least change it to Mappack 3.0 (dropping "1+2+" part) so we can increment it in form of Mappack3.1, 3.2, 3.3,... etc.?

    Yeah, that's one good versioning scheme. I suggest we retroactively start referring to the original "FHSW-Europe Mappack 1+2+3" as "FHSW-Europe Mappack v3.0"; "FHSW-Europe Mappack 1+2+3 version 2" as "FHSW-Europe Mappack v3.2"; and so on, and in this case what was last released on April 6 would be "FHSW-Europe Mappack v3.4". In any case, if we decide to re-release it it'll be important to include the date April 6 2020 (or a later date) in all announcements (it'll be less important in the future).

    But please post the list of the maps already, since several players have already installed it (and I guess the maps are enabled on the server too).

    About Kabu.server's mappack: what is known so far is that two new maps have been voted for adoption in the next version of that mappack:
  • Cebu-1945 - Americans invading a Japanese-held island. The author needs some time to fix some issues with the map, so a new version is expected to be made, tested, and only then included in the mappack.
  • Flak_tower-1945 - Americans fighting their way through streets to reach and assault a German Flakturm (a medium/small tank/inf map).

    What I don't know for sure is whether they plan to drop any of the currently included maps.

    Air Troll a.k.a. starking018
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    bubuDate: Monday, 2020-04-27, 5:13 PM | Message # 211
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    Ok;

    Here is mappack without Peleliu with all previous maps and 3 maps from FHSW x.xx: Mappack3.1.
        - Kakazu_Ridge-1945_CM201811
        - KORSUN_POCKET
        - kushira
    No idea which FHSW these maps come from but they are from zip from Kebab sent to Marduk on 2020-03-31 so probably 0.51-0.55? Please clarify.

        Spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file....sharing
        Download link: https://drive.google.com/file....sharing

    Please, Radio, can you repack this into .exe and send me a link for installer that we can put on main page?

    Purpose of this release: Allow playing of Savoy and Alpine line on upcoming Sunday event.
    The inclusion of kakazu/korsun/kushira is a test - we need to test if these maps work on the server.
     
    Born-1942Date: Monday, 2020-04-27, 8:11 PM | Message # 212
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    very nice everything seems to be more organized now.  cool

    Nicknames BornDarkness and Soldado da Wehrmacht
     
    starking018Date: Tuesday, 2020-04-28, 1:35 PM | Message # 213
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    Thanks.

    About Battle_of_Peleliu: what you had on the server on April 12 is the latest version. It's from December 2019 and it's the same in Kabu.server's mappack and it has not been changed since, so it seems the map is no longer being updated as often as it used to be before its public adoption, or at all (I watch their Discord server and I haven't seen a newer version for multiplayer testing or anything like that there). So, since we are going to have a new proper mappack release after "Mappack 3 version 2" anyway because of Kakazu/Korsun/Kushira, I see nothing wrong with trying Peleliu and including it along with the other 3 maps discussed here. I'm for it. That said, I wouldn't insist on it at all, since I'm not super excited about the map.

    BTW @RADIOSMERSH the installer must not delete map files such as Battle_of_Peleliu.rfa even if it is decided to be removed from a mappack.
    Quote bubu ()
    No idea which FHSW these maps come from but they are from zip from Kebab sent to Marduk on 2020-03-31 so probably 0.51-0.55? Please clarify.

    I compared the files and it turns out that:
    This Kushira is from FHSW 0.6 (file differs in FHSW 0.61). We could test this, or we could try kushira_day2 instead, from the Kabu.server mappack (I would guess the map is better in some way, but I don't know);
    This KORSUN_POCKET is from FHSW 0.6 but it is also the same in the current FHSW 0.61 - there was no newer version of it in FHSW 0.61. The previous version of the map is from FHSW 0.55 - we could test that, however don't just replace this file in your proposed mappack and release that. Please read about the important compatibility issue below and how to avoid it.

    Quote bubu ()
    Purpose of this release: Allow playing of Savoy and Alpine line on upcoming Sunday event.
    The inclusion of kakazu/korsun/kushira is a test - we need to test if these maps work on the server.

    So it's a mappack combining maps for the main server and maps for test purposes only (for now, and presumably disabled on the main server). That's an odd idea, but it's okay, as long as we don't risk breaking something for players who don't want to be part of the testing and just want to play FHSW. I think your particular proposal is safe right now, but: Kushira from FHSW 0.6 (in your proposal here, and as far as I understand, already released on April 6) and KORSUN_POCKET from 0.55 (if we want to test that) are a concern, since they would replace existing FHSW 0.61 map files. I think that KORSUN_POCKET is still being played on the other FHSW server (despite being unstable) so we can't replace that file for everyone. So the maps need to be renamed (renaming a map is not quite as simple as changing the file name alone) if they are going to go into any public release such as what you are proposing here. It's okay to distribute the maps with the original name only for initial testing purposes here and with the instruction about how to make a proper backup of the original file without breaking the whole game (Battlefield 1942 fails to start if there are extra .rfa files in some of its folders, so you need to move the file elsewhere or change the .rfa file extension to something else). So we either do that (distribute these testing maps separately and only to testers who know what they're doing) or we have to properly rename the maps from the start, even before the testing. I suggest we first try the already renamed and changed kushira_day2 and also rename FHSW 0.55's KORSUN_POCKET to KORSUN_POCKET_mod or whatever and then test it in multiplayer.

    For right now you could put back the link for the April 6 version of the mappack (I presume it was the same as this archive, only with the addition of the same version of Battle_of_Peleliu as what was on the server) knowing that we'll have to replace some of those maps in our next proper release. Just make sure you disable Battle_of_Peleliu, Kakazu_Ridge-1945_CM201811, Kushira, Stalingrad (you removed it since Mappack 3 version 2) on the main server.

    My suggestion for a test pack (can also be included in a combined testing+main server mappack on top of Mappack 1+2+3 version 2):
  • Battle_of_Peleliu (latest one from kabuServerMaps201912)
  • Kakazu_Ridge-1945_CM201811
  • KORSUN_POCKET_mod (properly renamed version based on KORSUN_POCKET from 0.55, if someone wants to create it for testing)
  • Kushira from FHSW 0.61 (restore the version from 0.61 just to avoid potential compatibility issues in the future, not for testing or playing)
  • kushira_day2

    Air Troll a.k.a. starking018
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    hakansprayDate: Sunday, 2020-06-28, 9:21 AM | Message # 214
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    I would like to suggest adding the map Bryansk-1942 which has been made and shared around in the japanese community.
    Since it unique in multiple ways, so much so i wonder how the map plays out online.
    The map features soviet partisans against the german army. Germans have early war vehicles and the train while the partisans only have static T-34/76, 45mm guns and horses. They do have special infantry equipment and spawn points.
    The map is quite large and has a long railway track for the PT-16 train along the edge of the map.

    Bryansk-1942 Map Download on Google Drive


    aka Hawken (Ingame)
    aka Rikskorp (Wiki)
     
    starking018Date: Monday, 2020-06-29, 9:31 PM | Message # 215
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    I'll caution that the map is still being worked on to become balanced. Several testing sessions have been held so far (I participated in a couple). It seems problematic that the partisans keep recapturing the flags and the Axis have to fall back, because it's a push map with recapturable flags. I guess that the earliest time the map can be ready for inclusion in a mappack would be after the Custom Map event scheduled for late August.

    Players who want to participate in testing this map (or others) can join the Japanese Discord server or follow 1121's Twitter (I suggest opening these in Chrome and using the built-in auto translate function). Typically when some new/changed custom maps are published by their authors 1121 announces that there's going to be a stability test/gameplay test/mini CM event/whatever later the same day, and provides a download link. Then he announces the start, varying around 16:30 CEST (summer time), and then players can find the server on the in-game browser (the IP changes) and join. If you see the word 'gati' in game chat it means 'game start', otherwise often the players are just waiting, looking around, etc. and not fighting (see what they are doing or ask).

    Some of the other new or changed maps being released and tested since the last CM event in April (various states of completion):


    Air Troll a.k.a. starking018
     
    Born-1942Date: Thursday, 2020-07-02, 3:49 PM | Message # 216
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    are these all maps? or are there others being edited?

    Nicknames BornDarkness and Soldado da Wehrmacht
     
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